Duane, I like to think about this idea braided together with your previous thoughts on imperfection. Since we are living inside human bodies, whose cells are continuously dividing, growing, and dying, while riding on a rotating planet, in a vast cosmos which is also in continuous motion... I think it's beautifully imperfect and human to yearn for, desire, thirst, and long for more--of everything! The bittersweetness is gorgeous. We never arrive--except for fleeting moments that some folks call meditation or prayer or stillness, which does feel amazing, however brief! I love this imperfect ride we're all on together. RIP John O'Donohue --a wise and enlightened soul--he's still riding around here somewhere that we can't go yet.
These are beautiful connections Ann! Thanks so much for sharing this! You've done a much better job of drawing them out and making them than I did. Its the glimmers and tastes that flit and fade as soon as we recognize them, as soon as we try to name them above a whisper. RIP John O'Donohue indeed, his work means so much to me. Thanks again this!
Paul, I love this book and have read it many times. One of my favorite passages: "A day is precious because each day is essentially the microcosm of your whole life. Each day offers possibilities and promises that were never seen before...unfolds what is surprising, unpredictable, and creative." This echoes why I love the microseasons.
Love this Duane! Words and images both. Do you know Deleuze and Guattari's writings on desire? They have a very similar analysis - critiquing the Freudian/psychoanalytical understanding of desire as "lack" (i.e. desire as capitalist binary: empty/full), and offering another way of understanding our relationship to desire as a non-binary force (much like what you've called 'yearning'). Anyway - great stuff!
Thank you my friend! I'm not as well-read on Deleuze and Guattari as I'd liek to be. I came to them through Zizek, but I love everything I've read so far. I haven't read their thoughts on this subject, but it sounds exactly right to me! I'sd love to read more on it. Is there a particular text you'd recommend?
Nice :-) Hmmmm... I am not sure if there's a particular text - I kind of cobbled it together from various bits and pieces. I imagine Zizek does speak to it though, since they really came for Freud/Lacan, haha :-) I will have a look though and see if I can find anything. If I can't, I might try and write a little about it for one of my posts. It's a theory that really inspired me, and I think about it a lot. So it would be worth jotting it down.
Thanks! I'll do some digging as well. Just got Zizek's book a few weeks back, haven't dug into yet, may have to move it up the list. You should definitely write about it! I would live to read that!
Great questions! I think it can be helpful to recognize the difference. I think it's subtle and it takes awareness and attention. I lean towards the Buddhist notion that the suffering brought about through craving and desire are rooted in greed, hatred, and delusion. But I think that longing is something different. I think it revels in the presence of the yearning not in the hopes of satisfaction or fulfilment but for the yearning's sake...or I could be completely mistaken lol.
I’d like to think that desire is not necessarily rooted in greed. The object is, after all, a better determinant. Perhaps longing, analyzed by an impartial observer, is purer for tending to be unconsummated.
I think desire can be satisfied, lack can be replaced with abundance. I think yearning is something different, rarely, if ever, satisfied and it carries an almost endless sense of hopelessness, often ending in catastrophic consequences, even death, and your point about innate innocence and makes sense because real yearning is never satisfied so how can it not be purer?
Desire can be satisfied just as you say, abundantly…If we’ve been fortunate, there’s no question.
Yearning likely does skates on the verge of magical thinking and tragedy.. (the catastrophe of withdrawing from reality). Didn’t think of it until you said it..
There's a rich and intricate web of subtleties here, which makes the topic rife with both implication and connotation. There were a few things I had in mind as I was wrestling and writing this. When I was thinking of desire I was thinking more specifically of "tanha"' as the root of suffering in Buddhist thought as it relates to what they call the three poisons or the three defilements; ignorance, craving, and aversion. We want what we want, we think we can be satisfied by it in some permanent way and we want to avoid what we find unpleasant and we think this is possible. In this regard, greed refers only to our insatiable hunger for more and more with the belief that it can be finally sated.
In the case of longing or yearning I'm thinking of something akin to Sehnsucht or Saudade. A kind of inconsolable longing for something unnameable. Not so much a lack but an absent-presence. I this way, Longing is an animating force. A call. A summons. A beckoning to go deeper into unknowing and mystery.
As John O'Donohue says in Anam Cara "it is human longing that makes us holy", it "is spiritual and has great depth and wisdom."
Thanks for all these lively and insightful comments!
I’m not certain desire is necessarily rooted in greed, either, but I think it is related to lack. I do think, however, your comment re: yearning tending to be unconsummated is right on the money, Patris.
In lack - yes. I agree. Maybe a wanting, with little hope of having. As for yearning - there’s an innate innocence I think don’t you think? Perhaps more a wish than even intent.
Love your philosophical additions to the conversation and your art work Duane. The longing makes us search and in that state we find answers we may not have expected. Creativity thrives in moments of despair.
Thanks so much! I greatly appreciate your feedback. Susan Cain says that "Whatever pain you can’t get rid of, make it your creative offering." that strikes me as something deeply true, and I find myself trying to lean into the truth of it more and more.
Duane, I like to think about this idea braided together with your previous thoughts on imperfection. Since we are living inside human bodies, whose cells are continuously dividing, growing, and dying, while riding on a rotating planet, in a vast cosmos which is also in continuous motion... I think it's beautifully imperfect and human to yearn for, desire, thirst, and long for more--of everything! The bittersweetness is gorgeous. We never arrive--except for fleeting moments that some folks call meditation or prayer or stillness, which does feel amazing, however brief! I love this imperfect ride we're all on together. RIP John O'Donohue --a wise and enlightened soul--he's still riding around here somewhere that we can't go yet.
These are beautiful connections Ann! Thanks so much for sharing this! You've done a much better job of drawing them out and making them than I did. Its the glimmers and tastes that flit and fade as soon as we recognize them, as soon as we try to name them above a whisper. RIP John O'Donohue indeed, his work means so much to me. Thanks again this!
John O'Donohue, Anam Cara
Paul, I love this book and have read it many times. One of my favorite passages: "A day is precious because each day is essentially the microcosm of your whole life. Each day offers possibilities and promises that were never seen before...unfolds what is surprising, unpredictable, and creative." This echoes why I love the microseasons.
Anam Cara and Eternal Echoes are certainly two of my favorites by him!
Love this Duane! Words and images both. Do you know Deleuze and Guattari's writings on desire? They have a very similar analysis - critiquing the Freudian/psychoanalytical understanding of desire as "lack" (i.e. desire as capitalist binary: empty/full), and offering another way of understanding our relationship to desire as a non-binary force (much like what you've called 'yearning'). Anyway - great stuff!
Thank you my friend! I'm not as well-read on Deleuze and Guattari as I'd liek to be. I came to them through Zizek, but I love everything I've read so far. I haven't read their thoughts on this subject, but it sounds exactly right to me! I'sd love to read more on it. Is there a particular text you'd recommend?
Nice :-) Hmmmm... I am not sure if there's a particular text - I kind of cobbled it together from various bits and pieces. I imagine Zizek does speak to it though, since they really came for Freud/Lacan, haha :-) I will have a look though and see if I can find anything. If I can't, I might try and write a little about it for one of my posts. It's a theory that really inspired me, and I think about it a lot. So it would be worth jotting it down.
Thanks! I'll do some digging as well. Just got Zizek's book a few weeks back, haven't dug into yet, may have to move it up the list. You should definitely write about it! I would live to read that!
This is beautiful, thanks for sharing, makes me feel better about longing!!!
Thanks so much! Yes! Longing is a powerful creative force! Lean into it!
I love this post. "Bittersweet" is such a brilliant book! It's a big inspiration for much of my work in the past six months or so as well.
Yes! It's so good! Definitely having a huge impact on me!
Should we know the distinction? Can it ever be one and the same. Isn’t desire, fulfilled, the culmination of indescribable longing..
Great questions! I think it can be helpful to recognize the difference. I think it's subtle and it takes awareness and attention. I lean towards the Buddhist notion that the suffering brought about through craving and desire are rooted in greed, hatred, and delusion. But I think that longing is something different. I think it revels in the presence of the yearning not in the hopes of satisfaction or fulfilment but for the yearning's sake...or I could be completely mistaken lol.
I’d like to think that desire is not necessarily rooted in greed. The object is, after all, a better determinant. Perhaps longing, analyzed by an impartial observer, is purer for tending to be unconsummated.
Good thoughts! There's definitely something intriguing there!
I think desire can be satisfied, lack can be replaced with abundance. I think yearning is something different, rarely, if ever, satisfied and it carries an almost endless sense of hopelessness, often ending in catastrophic consequences, even death, and your point about innate innocence and makes sense because real yearning is never satisfied so how can it not be purer?
Desire can be satisfied just as you say, abundantly…If we’ve been fortunate, there’s no question.
Yearning likely does skates on the verge of magical thinking and tragedy.. (the catastrophe of withdrawing from reality). Didn’t think of it until you said it..
I think of desire as immanent, pointing to the material world, and yearning as transcendent, pointing beyond (but that's just me).
I think that's a really apt way to categorize the two.
I don’t disagree at all
There's a rich and intricate web of subtleties here, which makes the topic rife with both implication and connotation. There were a few things I had in mind as I was wrestling and writing this. When I was thinking of desire I was thinking more specifically of "tanha"' as the root of suffering in Buddhist thought as it relates to what they call the three poisons or the three defilements; ignorance, craving, and aversion. We want what we want, we think we can be satisfied by it in some permanent way and we want to avoid what we find unpleasant and we think this is possible. In this regard, greed refers only to our insatiable hunger for more and more with the belief that it can be finally sated.
In the case of longing or yearning I'm thinking of something akin to Sehnsucht or Saudade. A kind of inconsolable longing for something unnameable. Not so much a lack but an absent-presence. I this way, Longing is an animating force. A call. A summons. A beckoning to go deeper into unknowing and mystery.
As John O'Donohue says in Anam Cara "it is human longing that makes us holy", it "is spiritual and has great depth and wisdom."
Thanks for all these lively and insightful comments!
I’m not certain desire is necessarily rooted in greed, either, but I think it is related to lack. I do think, however, your comment re: yearning tending to be unconsummated is right on the money, Patris.
In lack - yes. I agree. Maybe a wanting, with little hope of having. As for yearning - there’s an innate innocence I think don’t you think? Perhaps more a wish than even intent.
Wonderful, Duane. Thank you!
My pleasure! It’s always a pleasure chatting with you! I get a lot out of it, obviously lol
Love your philosophical additions to the conversation and your art work Duane. The longing makes us search and in that state we find answers we may not have expected. Creativity thrives in moments of despair.
Thanks so much! I greatly appreciate your feedback. Susan Cain says that "Whatever pain you can’t get rid of, make it your creative offering." that strikes me as something deeply true, and I find myself trying to lean into the truth of it more and more.
Rings true!